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Author Topic: Chinese celadon, old or new?  (Read 84 times)

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #18 on: Apr 16, 2021, 19:03:32 »
Just a hint...Yaozhou bowls do have a yellowish/brownish color on the inside of the foot rim or on the base, covering these or only any areas not covered by the exterior celadon glaze. There are exceptions, but this is possibly the most important thing to check with Yaozhou items. Other kilns and fakes usually do not have this. The color of that is different from the celadon glaze.

de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #17 on: Apr 16, 2021, 18:40:32 »

thanks Peter and Stan


think it is a fake

maybe I meet one time a specialist who can I show the bowl in real life

thanks

greetings Peter

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #16 on: Apr 16, 2021, 07:50:41 »
Hi de munte,

The glaze is not clear enough to see tiny details, but I think I can tell from the close-up images of the base that it is a fake Yaozhou bowl.
First, the foot rim shape is not right, and its edges are rounded. Then the foot rim color is similar to that of other kilns, but Yaozhou should not have that orange color. The chips on the foot rim are irrelevant, though, they are frequently encountered on foot rims of certain more ancient kilns. (Because the clay color of certain kilns  is important when deciding authenticity, some people intentionally make a chip to check the clay color below the surface.)
Then, the interior of the foot has the same glaze as the outside of the item. That should not be.

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #15 on: Apr 16, 2021, 07:31:23 »
Just noted that I forgot to add the link to the Yaozhou items, mentioned below. Here is it:
https://tinyurl.com/452bwr4c

de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #14 on: Apr 15, 2021, 23:43:11 »
Photos

de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #13 on: Apr 15, 2021, 23:42:23 »

More photos.

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #12 on: Apr 15, 2021, 14:39:40 »
One word, most items of that period are either from excavations or shipwrecks. That means they may show ingrained soil or traces from the sea. In addition, the bottom/foot rims usually show production related traces like fingernail or uneven glaze edges at the bottom. Everything perfect in that aspect is likely fake.

de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 15, 2021, 14:39:28 »

on mine there is no crackle? and different bottom?



de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #10 on: Apr 15, 2021, 14:35:59 »
alaintruong2014.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/yaozhou-greenware-bowl-with-boys-amid-peony-scrolls-northern-song-dynasty-ad-960-1127/

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #9 on: Apr 15, 2021, 14:26:58 »
Some museums now do.

Want to look at Yaozhou bottoms? This is an image search result. Look out for those with "dpm" in the URL, because those are from the Palace Museum in Peking. Those with "read01" or "kknews" are mostly okay too. That means these are not fakes.
(see link above)

Stan

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #8 on: Apr 15, 2021, 13:48:07 »
I wish they showed the bottom on the one at the museum.

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #7 on: Apr 15, 2021, 10:23:11 »
The ring-shaped item seems to exist, but do not know what it actually depicts. Please be aware that the items on the market are mostly fakes. See the the detail picture of such a decoration at:
www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/42429

Please note that some decorations of the Song dynasty may show the details of people more realistic than in the much later Ming and Qing dynasties!

peterp

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #6 on: Apr 15, 2021, 08:00:42 »
If right this would be a Yaozhou kiln bowl from the Song dynasty. The carved/impressed decoration with children does exist; usually decorations of that period are different from what appears later in the Ming and Qing dynasties. The feature that Stan mentioned needs to be checked. The more ancient kilns were completely different in view to decoration.
What would be needed is a close (very close) partial picture of the decoration, in order to view the glaze. And one of the foot, both the rim and interior area should be clearly visible. That are the decisive points in deciding whether it is old or a fake.

de munte

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #5 on: Apr 15, 2021, 00:56:46 »

Thanks for the fast answer.

de munte





Stan

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Re: Chinese celadon, old or new?
« Reply #4 on: Apr 14, 2021, 23:43:27 »
In my opinion, this is modern, the children with a ring around the neck and the 4 leaf clover is a bit strange, and the foot showing the 3 kiln marks looks to fresh, clean, on an antique it would not be so clean a break, let's see what Peter says.