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Author Topic: Miniature celadon tea set on stove  (Read 170 times)

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2021, 09:06:38 »
It is not possible to tell more from pictures, I'm afraid.
(Basically, I'm against telling people that an item is 'that or that'...too many times we have been told this ourselves and later it turned out differently. For example I have been told repeatedly that Longquan clay is gray, but then I had to disassemble one of my repaired Longquan plates and the clay was white like snow...debunked. There are always exceptions.)
All I can tell is that the celadon glaze is resembling a later Longquan glaze, but not any other one I know. It might be an imitation thereof made at Jingdezhen, though. And, as bit of peripheral knowledge, namely that the use of burial wares decreased in about the Yuan or early Ming dynasties.
Further, any shapes would not have to conform to later Ming or Qing dynasties, when these changed and continued in a more or less similar way throughout, to the end of the Qing dynasty. Those shapes conform more to those made at Jingdezhen. Shape variations before and up to the Yuan dynasty were much more plenty, made in a wide area of China, often dependent on individual kilns. I would not dare insisting on a certain shape.

My advice is find a knowledgeable collector in your area and have him/her do a hands-on inspection. Or wait until something similar comes around. Sometims questions regarding items' authenticty or age resolve themselves over time.

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2021, 09:03:15 »
> Like the glaze got sucked in by the iron particles
That might be right...but really, an inspection with a magnifier of more than 20x, or a microscope would be best. Artificial rust spots are usually painted on and have a flat look. Real old ones, if magnified, clearly show that they grew out from underneath the vitrous layer, that is from the clay. Often, but not always, they have a three-dimensional look, and the part below the surface, inside the vitreous glaze, gives as similar impression as stones or sticks in the ice (in winter). you see the part below but it clearly is looking a bit different when imbedded. You really should check this, because fakes often use too many rust spots in order to convince that an item is old. But in the enlarged pictures they seem to be natural ones. Being natural means having age. It takes considerable time for iron to grow from the clay through a thick glaze.
Whether the clay is light gray os white does not really matter. That depends much on the kiln, where the clay was mined, in what depth, and how much it was refined before use. Clay color varies depending on location and depth where it was mined.
The crazes in the vitreous glaze may develop with age. Artificial ones do not usually look this way. But not sure IF it is possible to create them this way, nowadays.

I do not understand why you want to force a decision on this? Do you want to sell it?
We often keep items for years until we find some proof for or against authenticity, or similar items.
Shape of such miniature items cannot be expected to be the same as larger ones. It is even doubtful that they were thrown on a wheel, as they would with normal size items. More likely would be they were made at least partially in a mould, or completely with hand tools.

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2021, 01:04:40 »
The clay its made from is white. I have made some detailed pictures (20 posts or something below here)i hope you can make out more and maybe can see if this is really old, yuan or early ming or maybe new. The iron spots actually are little craters. Like the glaze got sucked in by the iron particles. It looks kind of gray the rust spots but thats the light shining on it so you can the contours. The are dark brown or blackish. I had this tea set also posted on an antiques facebook group but since nobody reacted i posted it here from a tip by a friend. I actually got a reaction on that fb group by an celadon expert and he immedeatly shot it down. He said the form of the cups etc are not from that era and he said the glaze is way to new and he wouldnt even call it an antique. So i dont know what to think about it anymore. I dont really care if its made in the 14th century or 20th century but i just want to know from when it is. Hopefully you can tell more with the new detailed pics below. Grts apple

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2021, 01:00:38 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
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apple1981

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apple1981

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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
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