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Author Topic: Miniature celadon tea set on stove  (Read 123 times)

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2021, 00:47:20 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 00:46:10 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2021, 00:44:38 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2021, 00:43:23 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2021, 00:42:22 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2021, 00:41:34 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2021, 00:40:36 »
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apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2021, 00:39:42 »
The clay its made from is white. I have made some detailed pictures hope you can make out more and maybe can see if this is really old, yuan or early ming or maybe new. The iron spots actually are little craters. Like the glaze got sucked in by the iron particles. It looks kind of gray but that the light shining on it so you can the contours. I had this also posted on an antiques facebook group but since nobody reacted i posted it here from a tip by a friend. I actually got a reaction on that fb group by an celadon expert and he immedeatly shot it down. He said the form of the cups etc are not from that era and he said the glaze is way to new and he wouldnt even call it an antique. I dont really care if its made in the 14th century or 20th century but i just want to know from when it is. Hopefully you can tell more with the new detailed pics. Grts apple

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2021, 13:20:49 »
What you can do is make sure with a magnifier whether the rust spots have a three-dimensional appearance, because they should have grown out of the glaze. Identifying by the bottom is perhaps not that easy because production of such small items would probably have differed. They may not have been processed the same way. A grayish clay would correspond to Longquan wares.

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 13:02:51 »
Finally the size is shown. This definitely is burial ware, nothing of a liquor cup.
And, the color is now also clear in your last picture. Celadon like that of Longquan would have a lighter (even yellowish) appearance in ridges or protruding areas, but that is only valid for the later Longquan wares of the Ming dynasty. Originally I thought it might be Longquan, but the base is not typical...however it is sometimes difficult to tell. Some peripheral kiln in the Longquan system, other than the main kiln, might have made this.
I have had the opportunity to see single items on occasion, but I doubt you will be able to find plenty online, unless they are fakes, due to several factors.You will likely also have difficulty to find anyone specialized on these. Some burial wares, including epitaphs, offered online are fake.

One reason that these items are difficult to find is probably that many people do not like to collect items related to the departed. Museums are therefore more likely to have them. Also you may be aware that trading in excavated items in China is now severely punished, it is therefore unlikely that many will become available in the future, unless they are already out of country. Such items were probably made to order like the epitaphs and may not be that plenty, as commoners were less likely able to purchase any porcelain, not to speak have it made for the dead. :-)

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:29 »
Tea set in perspective

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2021, 11:19:11 »
Small cup/bowl without lid

apple1981

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2021, 11:17:40 »
Thanks again for your reply peter. Very much appreciated. All the items by the way have that orange/reddish line around the non glazed base, but the lidded pot and one lidded bowl have a little wider and cruder base and more defined orange/reddish line, but all the pieces have that orange/redddish line. Just noticed on the lidded bowl theres a little scratch which shows the whiter clay type beneath like all the others pieces. And as far as i can tell its probaply at least made from the same clay type and probaply came out of the same kiln would be my guess. But again im no expert. I hope you did noticed how small this tea set is cause it is miniature. Im looking into finding an expert in this matter but im affraid i wont find an expert who can defenately can confirm it is qing bai ware from the yuan or early ming dynasty. Ive searched hours and hours on the internet but cant find any similar crude pieces or a set like this. I do get to see some miniature pots but there not that crudely made. The porcelain look way more pure and seems better made. But since it was common ware also for common people i dont see why there wouldnt be more crudely made items.. if you have any ideas for sites to browse or you know any experts which or who can help me out in finding more about this item would be very welcome. Maybe you know some museums i could email which know about this qing bai celadon? Any help appreciated. At least thanks already for the info provided...just really think this might be special somehow :) grts apple

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2021, 07:11:55 »
It is very well possible that these items are from different firings, or even accumulated later from different sources. That would explain that some have orange lines and the others not. Usually, even in the same firing items may show some differences in color, because they were all fired separately and then lids and jars, etc. were afterwards paired.

What is increasingly done now is looking at the bubbles and other aging signs within the glaze and clay itself. This requires strong magnifiers or microscopes. But age signs may differ with burial ware, depending on the environment and whether it was really tightly closed off or not. But I do not think at the present stage it is possible to tell exactly from which era something is.

Burial wares often are considerably smaller than everyday items. Only some liquor cups are sometimes so small as items of those. You will have to look at museum items items of this type for more information. As such items are unlikely from mainstream kilns it may be difficult to decide age more accurately unless you find something similar.

peterp

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Re: Miniature celadon tea set on stove
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 06:58:05 »
To Hmm: I did consider the similarity to Korean items too but think it is unlikely because of the difference of the bottoms of Korean ceramics. And, did Korea have burial ware apart from epitaphs? This custom in China has a long history, but until now I could not detect anything similar in Japan or Korea. I believe the items of this type found in Korea were more for actual use. And, at least in China items of this type seem to be pottery based, usually.