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Author Topic: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify  (Read 172 times)

mufan99

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #10 on: Jan 13, 2021, 16:43:43 »
To me the two character mark looks like the ancient Chinese Oracle Bone Script. I believe there were a number of archaeological discoveries in the 1920s and 30s and the script became a popular style of decoration at that time. I have a Chinese silver salt and pepper set from that period decorated with these archaic characters. I would say the bowl was probably quite new when it came to your family. I hope that helps.

Stan

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #9 on: Jan 10, 2021, 15:34:40 »
Hi Peter the dental design is Greek in whom the Chinese and Japanese copied, also called Greek revival, I have some Edo period pieces that have that design it is also used in the Meiji period.

notakid

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #8 on: Jan 10, 2021, 13:36:57 »
Again, thanks everyone for the information and have a good rest of your weekend.

peterp

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #7 on: Jan 10, 2021, 10:24:08 »
Stan, is the naming "dental" decoration normal in the west? Not sure if I have the term "castle wall" decoration from a translation of the Chinese term or not. But that is not the point, this decoration appeared first on Chinese porcelain either in the Shunzhi reign, or in the transitional period, meaning it would have first appeared in the 17th century on Chinese porcelain. So it is not a Japanese decoration, originally. On Chinese porcelain it is mostly found along the top rim or the shoulder of ginger jars. I agree that the shape does not appear to be traditional Chinese.

Stan

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #6 on: Jan 10, 2021, 03:55:58 »
The only things I can see that points to Japanese is the shape and the dental decoration around the outside foot, this would be vintage at best in my opinion and would have a low collectors value.

notakid

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #5 on: Jan 10, 2021, 02:17:59 »
Interesting case for the bowl being Japanese, peterp.  Thank you for sharing your impressive level of knowledge about this subject!

Do you think the bowl is worth more than $50? Not to sound crass, but I am trying to clear out some old things and want to know: should I donate it to the local charity shop or should I try to sell it on ebay?

peterp

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #4 on: Jan 09, 2021, 11:21:35 »
Thanks for the pictures.
It is difficult to decide if it is Japanese or 20th century Chinese, but it most likely is not antique Chinese, that is Qing dynasty or something earlier. My reasoning is as follows.
All outside decorations are elements found in Chinese decorations, including the shou character. I think we can ignore the type or style of the latter, as there are dozens of variations. I'm not familar with the decoration along the top rim, inside, but it is hand-painted.
The brown top rim would not appear in many porcelain items after the early Qing dynasty.
The dragon head looks more like something of the late Qing dynasty (or later). The legs of dragons do show joints at times, but it is doubtful that the legs of a classic dragon would be forward curved as if it was rubber, as shown in the lower leg part, here.
The 'castle wall' decoration on the foot was popular in the early Qing dynasty, and in the late Qing dynasty, but the blue ring inside is too close to the foot rim. This may be a sign that it could be Japanese. This would only be possible in a classic Chinese item if the foot diameter would be very small, so that the circle surround the mark is close to the rim, but that is not the case here. The mark itself looks more like a figure than a character, although it might be just a figurative presentation of a character. But this itself makes it unlikely traditional Chinese,  Japanese porcelain (or modern Chinese porcelain) would be more likely to have such a mark.
With a few early exceptions Chinese marks always are one in the two character styles, zhuanshu or kaishu, Japanese marks on the other hand often are more artistic or in fancy writing.

Let us see if someone recognizes this specific item or mark...



notakid

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #3 on: Jan 09, 2021, 09:07:54 »
Many thanks for your help and suggestions. Here are some additional views.
The shou character seems different from what I've elsewhere on the internet.
Hope these help a bit.

The dark blue damage on the foot rim is glazed over, by the way.

I would say the glaze around the foot rim looks hand applied, that is, it's a bit sloppy. The paint around the top rim is a bit crudely done.

peterp

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Re: Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #2 on: Jan 09, 2021, 07:50:44 »
The shou character is a common decoration, found in many places, the mark on the bottom does not look like those on antiques.

Maybe you could upload closeup shots of the decoration, showing the dragon head and tail tip closeup (partial pictures fine)? The top rim and foot rim, as well as the base are important. Important is that any blemishes or glaze faults are clearly visible. Would also like to have a close look at the white glaze inside, and at the foot rim connection to the base (inside, taken at an angle to show its shape). Perhaps also a partial of the rim decoration inside.

notakid

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Unusual markings on dragon bowl - please help me identify
« Reply #1 on: Jan 09, 2021, 05:53:25 »
This bowl has been in our family since about 1935. I have no idea of its origins. Japan? China? Korea? I'd like to know where it came from and what the mark means on the bottom of the bowl. It is unusual, as is the shou(?) symbol inside the bowl. Any info you can provide as to the bowl's origin or value would be greatly appreciated.