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Author Topic: 18 Demigods black vase  (Read 3923 times)

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #21 on: Jun 15, 2014, 07:57:02 »
Hi T Chan, it was under guangxu vase, and the pictures were at another web site and are no longer there, but the conversation is still under guangxu vase, for worm back foot.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 15:27:15 »
Oh yes I forgot to say, the celadon vase is not right, right? I am thinking to change it with a pair of Kangxi vase. The one that have the Kangxi pair, ok, as far as he got enough money for the exchange. I already sent him pics.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 15:17:19 »
Stan, could you give me the page number for the worm back discussion? Your discussion? Or a link maybe? Thanks.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 15:07:28 »
Hi Stan, this Qing period is indeed the most difficult. First, there are a lot of fake out there, even in the late Qing. And secondly the period is only between 100-400 years ago, so the age sign is not that obvious? And third, it imitates Ming and Song period too. I am not going to disappoint since i am buying Qings without knowledge but with 99% intuition:-) and well, I only have about 10 pcs for Qing anyway. But in gaining knowledge definitely is much much better for future references. Now is the time to examine the pcs, and I believe, hopefully, at least 1-2 are right.

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2014, 22:55:07 »
No this would not be a worm back, the porcelain unglazed foot is to fine to be antique and there is no age signs, even in Imperial porcelain, you would expect to find rust spots, a rust spot is iron in the porcelain that developes in 100 years and up, there are a lot of fakes out there with artificial rust spots, that is why you need to look at all the logistics of the whole, I think it would be better for Peter to explain the  worm back foot, just so I do not misinterpret the facts, the reason I know this is because I had a vase I  thought was Imperial and through our experience with porcelain we learn, you have a good start, you get a chance to examine the pieces you have and learn, it can be disappointing when you find out that it is not as old as you thought but the knowledge you gain is tremendous and we will know the next time.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 17:53:03 »
Is this a worm back? This one looks 180 degrees to me. I really got confused. Its really difficult learning this field:-(

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 17:36:16 »
Here is another pic. The real color look like this.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 17:10:32 »
Hi too Stan and Peter, I know that the mark is the last to look. I am posting it here because of the paste. I want to learn about the density of the paste and what it is look like for Qianlong period. Because someone told me that the paste of a Court ware porcelain from Kangxi to Jiaqing is dense and solid look. So I thought could it be like this?
So anyway, since this rim is not 'worm back'(I just know it today), then the density of paste must be wrong too. Btw is the meaning of worm back = half of a circle?
Here I post the body of the foot rim. Height is 50cm. (Sorry to post this on the same thread)

peterp

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 08:50:02 »
I agree with Stan, neither the foot rim nor the glaze within would be imperial. The mark...that is one of the most faked and misunderstood features of porcekain. It can simply not be used for authentication, it can only used for confimration if  ALL other factors are right.

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 08:25:19 »
Hi T Chan, you can't judge by the mark alone and a couple blown up pictures of the bottom, you really need pictures of the whole vase and close ups of any age sign, you are right about the Qing court ware it would have been imperial and flawless as far as I know, I have never owned one my self and have never had the opportunity to handle Imperial porcelain, but I have a lot of books and  experts that tell me what to look for, for example the foot rim would have a worm back foot it would be rounded like a worm, I learned that from Peter, I do not think that the foot shown would qualify as a worm back foot.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 02:35:10 »
Hi Stan, thanks for your comment. I will remember it. Yes I think it must be mid 20th c since the face is too realistic. I wasnt realize that. It looks good though:-) but that was history and will not happen again. Stan, about the pitting, does it work with the Qing court ware too? Until now I still have no idea and what to look about Qing court ware since I dont have one:-)(or don't know which one) But by having a piece, definitely you will not go wrong finding others.
Stan, I just want to ask you, I post a foot rim paste, I suspect to be Qianglong period. Do you think this kind of paste looks promising for that period? Because it looks more denser compare to the one below(the 18 demigods foot rim). Need your point of view. Thanks.

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 22:49:49 »
Hi T Chan, it looks like it was made in one piece, the mouth is wide enough for the potter to get his hands in side, sometimes they use a piece of bamboo to turn it and smooth it out, on vases with smaller mouth and neck it would be in two pieces.
If this had been an antique vase there would be pitting and some kiln stress cracks that happens when fired, these would be have dirt in them that can not be washed out, but this looks like it is more recent, I believe it is mid 20th century, it was the 50s that they started painting the faces in a more realistic fashion as on this vase.

T. Chan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2014, 15:28:28 »
Dear Stan, I have looked at the inside and also feel it with my hand, there are no joins. Just swirls all way up till neck. But I thought joins are only from Song to early Ming? And additional join at base for Yuan? If I am not wrong. The swirl is rather uneven. I have take a pic of the swirl. Thanks.

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 23:54:29 »
Hi T Chan, I have bought many of vase similar to yours and found out that they were good reproductions, on this vase I am sure it was made in two sections maybe three, I found that a mirror with a light to view the inside goes a long way to authenticate, where they joined the pieces together the newer vases would have a very even seam all around but the antique vases would have been not so, very uneven and small chunks of porcelain all around the seam and then you have the Ming and early Qing where the seams were rubbed out but you can still see all the cracks around the seam that clearly would be visible, the newer would have very little to no cracks.

Stan

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Re: 18 Demigods black vase
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 23:42:38 »
I would say mid 20th century, the neck of the vase would have been more rounded if antique, and there would be age signs.