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Author Topic: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl  (Read 3478 times)

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #27 on: Jun 28, 2014, 08:36:51 »
Nevermind.
Turns out that the punch and other bowls are decorated on both sides. Water basins like this one, only on interior. The flowers on the outside and similar key patterns are present on most of them.

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #26 on: Jun 27, 2014, 23:46:43 »
I hope there was no full decoration on the exterior that was covered. I am not finding any canton/medallion/mandarin bowls with just the interior being fully painted. Is it common?
Also, Peter, have you seen before similar border with keys and the other objects?

peterp

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #25 on: Jun 27, 2014, 21:59:51 »
It could just be that the on-glaze colors were abraded to a degree that they thought it advantageous to repaint them. There may be repairs that you don't see...

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #24 on: Jun 27, 2014, 20:04:47 »
I also thought the second one was newer but I don't understand what kind of repair there could be? Like, there was a crack or a chip that was filled up/ patched with something? In this case they would glaze or put something over the whole exterior not only the damaged area right?

peterp

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #23 on: Jun 27, 2014, 14:54:02 »
To me the first one looks old, but the second one either was overpainted or is completely new. Repainting some things is normal after a repair.

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #22 on: Jun 27, 2014, 13:39:14 »
By the way, there are three flowers on the exterior. Two of them are very similar but the third one is kind of sloppy. Any explanation?
I don't think that originally there were only two because it would look incomplete.

peterp

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #21 on: Jun 27, 2014, 12:38:21 »
Hard to tell what it is. So don't use the acetone. It will likely soften the covering layer and it may never harden again.

Anyway, you know now why it is that way. Don't expose the bowl to strong light. Many lacquers and other glaze-like materials will discolor under light, although they may also do so without, depending on what it is.

Stan

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #20 on: Jun 27, 2014, 12:33:20 »
I think Peter is right, it might be an old repair.

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #19 on: Jun 27, 2014, 10:16:11 »
Ok,
The foot rim was covered with thin layer of lacquer or something that I will be able to remove. The discoloration does not come off. Tried to wash it, even used wire brush but nothing works. I think it is on the underside of the coating.
The needle does not penetrates the top layer. But I have not tried to heat it up.
My theory is that the covering was put to protect the enamels. On some places, especially at the bottom of the interior, the paints have started to peel off. So, not a bad idea to preserve the piece but whoever put the cover did not do a great job as there are some wrinkles and marks. Plus, it left some dark green-brownish spots on the decoration and whatever color it is on the outside. I wonder if that is due to some kind of chemical reaction.

So, I guess the piece has to stay the way it.

Stan

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #18 on: Jun 27, 2014, 00:07:37 »
I used comet to clean mine and it took it off completely, but try a little area first because comet can be abrasive if you scrub to hard, regular dish soap did not work on mine, that is if it is the same tar like substance that was on mine, but try Peters way first

peterp

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #17 on: Jun 26, 2014, 11:26:53 »
Did you try washing? The needle test?
Do that first, then if it is pliable, take a cotton stick with some acetone and try to wipe the artificial covering off, if there is any. We don't want to damage the item. So, please examine each area closely. The covering might be intended to protect some repair. If it is removed improperly, it could expose the repair or remove it. Careful with this...if you are not positive you want to clean it, rather leave it.
Yes, late Qing, apparently.

Stan

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #16 on: Jun 26, 2014, 10:43:39 »
Yes you are right, I haven't looked at mine in a long time, it has been in a cupboard ever since I found out it was new, I just pulled it out to take pictures, I can see yours is older, 19th century, Peter says.

kardinalisimo

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #15 on: Jun 26, 2014, 09:29:15 »
Good to see your bowl. I think mine is different. The colors are not that bright and shiny and the paintings look to more freely done. If you notice, on yours, the clothing on the people are all outlined. On this one, only some parts are.
I don't think I've seen before that key pattern interrupted by hearts and that other shape.
Peter, the porcelain appears to be very whitish as shown on the picture with the chip on the varnish. Would you recommend to try to get the lacquer off? Or leave it the way it is.
So, do you think it is late Qing for sure?
Thanks

peterp

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #14 on: Jun 26, 2014, 09:18:12 »
Yes Stan, yours is newer. A typical 20th century item.

Stan

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Re: Double glazed famille rose punch bowl
« Reply #13 on: Jun 26, 2014, 09:07:11 »
Hi Peter, this is the bowl that was covered in a yellowish tar color, it all came off when I washed it, I bought this about 20 years ago. This bowl I believe is a newer bowl.