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Author Topic: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom  (Read 3341 times)

admin

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #22 on: Jul 05, 2014, 08:02:12 »
So this is the last of this!

This discussion forum is about an exchange on opinions of authenticity and age. If you cannot accept that your items might not be what you think, this is no reason to make personal attacks on other users, who try to help.

admin

Stan

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #21 on: Jul 05, 2014, 04:12:01 »
Good luck.

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #20 on: Jul 05, 2014, 04:10:52 »
Well, first of all,you can't take advantage of me, that is impossible to happen . second what I really did is just show you what I have if I want authentic I use in auction house where expert can see the object in their hand . anyway I know what I have . thank you .

Stan

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #19 on: Jul 05, 2014, 04:00:36 »
Manny you misunderstand me, what I said is 99% is fake, that is a fact, so chances are it is, the 1% is the vase found in the attic, the other you mentioned, no one is trying to take advantage of you, I am learning and so if I said something thats wrong, I apologize, I do make mistakes, but believe me when I do peter or someone else is quick to correct me, I do however have been collection for over 30 years, I think it has been 4 or more years since I found this web site and have been learning ever since. I hope you well and hope you have a vase in the attic! Stan.

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #18 on: Jul 05, 2014, 03:20:36 »
Well you just have to look at your previous comment they are still here, see the one about this vase, then only then call me a lier .
Anyway like I said I just showed you what I have, that you wish you had, even if you think they are  fakes .

Stan

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #17 on: Jul 05, 2014, 01:45:54 »
Hi Manny, where are you coming up with this stuff, you say I said, I never said, if you don't know what it is then its a fake, I never said that, so lets be clear about that, you also mention several other lies that you claim that others said, I think you might have a communication problem, use the site to learn, like everyone else, if your not happy about the information you are getting then I am sure there are others out there that are selling fakes that will say yours is authentic. but not here.

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #16 on: Jul 05, 2014, 00:25:30 »
well I know someone will say that, it happen to be you again (who said before, if you don't know what you have, then it's fake) remember this ? have a look, I think  it's new, made just like week . ha ha ha
It's that how you give your opinion ? Not by the peace itself, but by who own it, why you don't know what you have, where you get it and so on and on if that is the case keep your opinion to yourself . anyway I just post it to show you what I have and I believe you don't . have a good day.

Stan

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #15 on: Jul 04, 2014, 09:52:25 »
Hi Manny, with a bottom like this I doubt that it is even 19th century, more like mid 20th century.

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #14 on: Jul 04, 2014, 07:35:49 »
Well I manage to take it off, guess what I find? have a look at the bottom mark, it's what I thought it is in the first place, as I was looking for vases that look like my vase, what I find was kangxi without looking at the bottom I thought that what it look like, now I take it off and it's, is it a coincidence ? have a look

Qst42know

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #13 on: Jul 03, 2014, 21:32:32 »
So.

Why the marble base?

Is there any other  correct period examples out there with a marble base?

What is the marble base attached with, a modern adhesive?

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #12 on: Jul 03, 2014, 20:30:39 »
Well like I said I don't care if it's genuine or not, I like it the way it's.  now you just have to look for yourself at his opinion, on other items 99.9 are new and the ones that he agree they are old, he add they worthless, tourist peace, and so on, that a fact and it's not sometime, it all the time , so most dealers don't know shit and are laying , they are selling new staff right?  so why he said my vase doesn't look like theirs (that means theirs are genuine my is not right?)  and then he said don't believe them . is that makes sense to you? it doesn't to me . it's sample, he could have said theirs and my vase are both fakes .

As to stan, he said to me ones, if you don't know what you have, it most be fake, so I ask him to have  a look at the vase that was find at the attic and the owners didn't know what they had , sold for a record 48 million  (google it yourself  chinese imperial vase find in the attic) you see for yourself . I bet you already did saw it so do he .
so why he said that ? anyway we all know the hand expert is the last and the only one that can tell the fact, even then still some people did got it wrong so I don't take their word as the fact, I'm not stupid( I'm just talking) and observing . have a good day

kardinalisimo

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #11 on: Jul 03, 2014, 10:32:44 »
Wow. Slow down a bit. I cannot comment  if your piece  is genuine  or not but why is all that hate?
I don't like it either when Peter says some of mine pieces are not old but it is not his fault. If i still have doubts I will try to find different opinions.
I learnt something very important from Peter. Don't try to see the similarities with other pieces but the differences. To untrained eyes two pieces may look exactly the same but there are many small details that sometimes distinguish the real from the fake or later period one.   
As to the dealers, yes, most of  them don't know shit about Chinese porcelain. Some think they do but in fact they don't and  some are liers. That is a fact.
As to the auction houses, you said it, they do make mistakes. There is a difference between an auction house and an auction house. Some are very reputable with better experts than others. But even the best houses misrepresent pieces sometimes. I do believe some auction places purposely would misrepresent a pece.  Call them whatver you want.
Also, Peter is a human being. Maybe sometimes he would give a wrong expertise. If you don't believe him, say thanks, and look for second opinion.
Stan told you why his opinion is 'negative' most of the time.
Because 99 or whatever % of the pieces are fake. That is proven statistic.
From my personal experience, I would say Peter was right about every single piece I've posted about. Fake and real ones. And if he is not sure he will tell you ' I think' , 'most likely' , ' hand on inspection is needed' etc.
I hope you piece turns to be authentic but if not don't get mad at people here. If you hang around here a little bit more you will learn things that are not even in the books.
Good luck!

PS you can find fake pieces in museums as well

peterp

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #10 on: Jul 03, 2014, 10:09:38 »
Well, that is funny. Most people I know have difficulties getting the real thing, even if it is from the Guangxu reign. But to some this isn't good enough. Is it the money?
Money is the biggest liar in all. High price means something is genuine? Then the fakers in China would all be stupid, because they also produce low-cost items?

Something was auctioned at a high price may mean something only if it was one of the top tier auction houses - there are only three international ones, and they may have access to 'experts; the 2nd and lower tiers, as well as many auction houses in China do auction off fakes - it is all the money, and they do not necessarily have 'experts'.

Some people here have an attitude that once something was sold at auction it is authentic, even if authenticity was doubtful in the first place. I do not like this attitude because I am primarily a collector. I don't want fakes, and I do want to know what I have. That is why I study these things for years.

When in doubt, always ask for more than one opinion. Sometimes you may have to pay for an appraiser.

BTW, I would suggest to get a book on Qing dynasty export porcelain. That should resolve the doubts. I am sure items that are so frequently encountered as this little vase are listed in most export porcelain descriptions.

manny

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #9 on: Jul 03, 2014, 09:15:03 »
Well Mr Stan let me tell you what I know I find a site where two expert from different auction made a big mistake on a vase that sold for millions, this one in there hand not on a picture . second a couple find a vase in the attic, didn't know anything about it, sold at auction record 48 million, I know there are many copies out there, because we are talking china, so for that reason expert or anyone with knowledge on this field, he first use the outside knowledge like if you don't know what you have then it's worth less, cause if it worth something you must know . or all are fake till proven,  I even show a plate from the auction house, still he said it's not what they say it's, now are we call all those so called auction expert liars ? or they don't know shit what they doing . including all the dealers on the net , first he said my vase doesn't look the same as theirs, (to my understand theirs is genuine old)  then he said don't believe what they said about theirs, I don't understand is it, both my and theirs are not that old or what ? now I don't care if this vase is old or not I really don't, it's just his opinion doesn't make sense and always negative why? he must have his reasons .

Stan

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Re: ID age of this vase have a marble on the bottom
« Reply #8 on: Jul 03, 2014, 01:41:46 »
Hi Manny, its not easy finding out that your porcelain is not as old as you thought, but keep in mind that 99% of porcelain that is sold is not what they say it is, face it, the Chinese are buying all the old antique porcelain and they are no longer exporting it, so it is becoming more rare than ever, so watch out for the fakes, I have been burned many of times, only the good experts can tell the difference.