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Author Topic: Millefleurs lamp  (Read 75 times)

peterp

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #13 on: Nov 26, 2021, 08:31:39 »
The power cord exit hole sure is made later, that means it was not made specifically for an electric lamp, maybe a candle was put inside? Some Chinese seem to think that this was mainly for ornamental purposes rather than utilitarian. Anyway, the shape is similar to certain antique lamps that were standing on the floor. But those were not made of porcelain, which would be too risky because it is easily destructed if it falls. Usually such items come in pairs.

I do not think that the thin black lines are conclusive enough in this case. Although it may point to the 20th century it would be difficult to tell wether earlier or later. But I do not think the pitting inside 'must' be indicative of age either. It looks different from that of the late Qing/early republic vases. The glaze composition and firing conditions might have lead to this. I do not think such pitting in the interior would be common for Qing or early republic items of this size either. If it was made in the second half of the 20th century, on the other hand, it is possible that it was made in a factory setting that used electric or gas fired kilns. That would have made the use of saggars unnecessary. I have no idea how that would affect firing traces.
If similar ones are few. I'm afraid you have to wait until one appears somewhere.

There is another thing, maybe someone else can confirm that. I have the feeling that I saw millefleur items made in Hong Kong or Macao, in the past. There would be differences compared with those made at Jingdezhen.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #12 on: Nov 26, 2021, 03:22:20 »
One think I forgot to mention is the decoration is all out lined in black, did not the earlier ones out line some of the decorations in orange?

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #11 on: Nov 26, 2021, 03:20:07 »
Here is a photo of the base that has been modified for the cord.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #10 on: Nov 26, 2021, 03:19:07 »
Here is 2 more photo's of the decoration.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #9 on: Nov 26, 2021, 03:11:41 »
Hi Peter, here are more photo's showing the thickness, the band around the stem and the Millefleurs decoration.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #8 on: Nov 26, 2021, 01:50:00 »
Hi Peter, this was modified at the bottom of the base, it was notched for the electrical cord, I can see where it was touched up after it was modified for the electrical cord, I would like to point out the pitting inside, It was hard to get photo's to show them clearly but there is is nice pitting through out the inside of the base and the shade, I did find on Christies they have a pair of Lanterns with the millefleurs pattern and another pair with identical shape but children playing in the decoration with no cord on either one, the later porcelains did not have such pitting I do not think or very little, this one has a lot of pitting inside. BTW, this is hand turned, the shade is 1/16th of an inch thick and the base is 3/16th of an inch thick, did they make such things like this late to republic period so thin hand turned?

peterp

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #7 on: Nov 25, 2021, 16:32:05 »
I have been looking around but could only find millefleur items of a similar style, and they all were 20th century, probably second half. Many had a spurious Qianlong mark.

Generally said, it seems that this type of porcelain is much more common abroad. As far as I know this was first made in the Qianlong reign, but few were made during the rest of the Qing dynasty. Most were made afterwards. So, I could not tell if it is early or later in the 20th century. I only know that many of the early republic ones seem to have a black background.
I sent you a link showing one similar to yours, the only one I could find on the Chinese internet.

peterp

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #6 on: Nov 25, 2021, 15:41:42 »
I did not realize that the "jar" is open below. So yes, it probably was made to be a lamp. I just wanted to know if this was intended as an electric lamp from the beginning or if it was modified.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #5 on: Nov 25, 2021, 14:29:43 »
Hi Peter, thanks for replying, the cord notch in the porcelain was added at at later time, I saw a pair of Lanterns in Christies that say they are 20th century that has the same shape and base, They also had a pair that had the same shape that was late Qing but the base had a longer stem the the shades were same shape with the Millefleurs pattern, I do not think this was a jar cut down although the bottom of the shade is unglazed and a little rough to the touch.

peterp

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #4 on: Nov 25, 2021, 10:50:45 »
Millefleur porcelain items were never plenty, at least not in China. It is odd, but there are lots of such items in the west. That means it was popular as an export item. The majority was probably made in the 20th century. The Qing dynasty ones usually show finely painted flowers with little background visible. Where there is one visible, it is usually gilt. Most likely it is 20th century, it does not show the black background visible in early republic items.
This decoration is a bit difficult to date. It does not look like the average republic millefleur I know. But, apart from that the shape is nothing you normally see.

A few questions, it looks as if it was a jar sitting on high base. Is there a hole in the bottom, and was that there before firing, or was it made afterwards (handmade), as with many jars/vases converted to lamps? Usually, those show a cragged edge or even have splits. Also, the place where the cable exits from the base/foot, was that made before firing or afterwards? The upper part has a shape like a normal jar, but with a painted neck.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #3 on: Nov 25, 2021, 10:14:04 »
And the last set of photo's to view. Thanks again and Happy Thanks Giving to everyone.

Stan

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Re: Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #2 on: Nov 25, 2021, 10:12:22 »
Here is a couple more photo's.

Stan

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Millefleurs lamp
« Reply #1 on: Nov 25, 2021, 10:11:30 »
Hi Peter, I do not have much Millefleurs design and so I do not know that much about it, It is Hi quality the porcelain is very thine for the dome or shade and it has nice pitting inside and, I think it might me early republic but Im not sure, your expertise is appreciated, thanks.